If you’re a Woman Reading Chateau Heartiste…

It appears the Roissysphere sometimes affects the women who read it, in a self-esteem lowering way.
”As you age, your SMV will decrease and you won’t ever get a man to commit to you”
“Older and fatter women are unattractive to most men”
“If you’re only a 6, the best you can do is to be pumped and dumped by an alpha”
I love all the negativity sometimes directed at women from the men of Roissysphere. And I’m not angry at them for doing this, because I believe they have a good reason for it. Some of what they are saying is not too wrong. I can believe them if they said that to most men, non-fat younger women are more attractive than fat and older women. And that if you’re a woman over 40, or a 6, you probably won’t get some alpha to commit to you, unless there is something special about you.  Some things they say are more negative than this though, and I have an idea of why they do this:
1)      Some of them are losers and might be projecting their undesirability on some of the women.
2)      They need this attitude to keep women off the pedestal in their own heads. It seems many men are prone to putting women on a pedestal, so reminding yourself that they are not all that would be a great help.
3)      They need this attitude to create an aura of having higher value than women, to make women qualify themselves to them, and as a result be attracted.
So if you’re a woman, reading that blog or anything similar, don’t take everything personally. Learn to distinguish when their criticism is about you, and when it’s about them.
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35 Responses to If you’re a Woman Reading Chateau Heartiste…

  1. Neecy says:

    Emma,

    I agree with your last point wholeheartedly. but I have to say I disagree with the idea that the negativity spewed towards women there is called for. The same way negativity spewed towards men on women run blogs is not called for. Negativity of any sort is NEVER called for!
    I get equally irritated at both genders constantly bashing each other. There are plenty bad apples to pass around in either gender.
    Whether those comments about women you listed are true or not, doesn’t make it right or productive. The things you mentioned that you feel are “right” fall more into the surface and shallow end of the pool. People of quality and depth do not simply base companionship on how someone LOOKS. There are a great number of happy men out there who are with women who may not be the youngest , thinnest or hottest but they are happy and fulfilled in their relationships.
    The game blogs narrowly are focused on the shallow aspects of women and not depth at all. Most of the women that are discussed and analyzed there are not representative of most women, but rather a certain caliber. Trying to use women who write and marry jailbird murders is so beyond ridiculous. There are simply deranged people walking earth (yes this includes women too) and that is the bottom line.
    There are women who like jerks, assholes and dickheads YES. No one said there was not a segment of women in the world with very low self value and esteem and they relish in situations that only magnify this. But there are also quality self respecting women who would never give one iota of a second to a jerk, thug or asshole. According to game blogs – all women are the same. Not true. That is like me saying all men are the same.
    Game blogs cannot talk about the women who are of quality and depth b/c they would never be successful in bedding so many women so they focus on women the most shallow aspect of a woman and that is simply how she looks on the outside.
    A lot of men who see women as nothing but negative will NEVER have positive relationships with women – EVER. Any good women that may cross their paths will smell their lunacy a mile away and keep going. So it’s a vicious cycle. They will never know what a good woman is b/c they will never be able to attract one with the negativity that emanates from them in regards to women.
    They will be pumping and dumping as long as they are able. If that is the kind of life they want – then so be it. But there are men out there who want to have a life of substance and also wants to and WILL find women of such who can and will make them happy.

    What heartiste's site does – be it directly or indirectly is really cause men to be cynical and untrusting of women. Women blogs focused on men do the same thing. The people who believe that stuff like it’s the bible or whatever will never find happiness b/c they are negative and cynical.

    The fact and reality is there doesn't have to be two extremes of:
    -placing women on a pedestal OR
    – directing venom and negativity towards women.
    And that is the problem. Those men on there have not figured out how to balance out what the issue really is.

  2. Emma says:

    Neecy,

    I didn’t say the negativity was called for. I just said I understand why they are spewing it. I’m not angry at them, because of those three reasons I listed. When someone lashes out at me like that, I have no reason to be upset. They probably want you to respond with more passionate words, so they can make fun of you more. It’s best not to respond to morons.
    I believe CH is not only a game site, but also a place where men can gather and be as negative as they like. I don’t think their annoyances and frustrations about women should be silenced. I realize that CH might be contributing to men becoming more cynical about women, but I also believe that an average guy there would go back to “normal” if he met a woman who was worth his trust and good treatment.

    And I know relationships are not based only on looks. Those things I found to be “right” are right in general, I believe. They are not about shallowness. I just said that some people are more attractive than others. And those hotter people will often choose hotter people, since they are hot enough to get them. Less hot people will be happy with less hot people. Looks are not everything, but they are the thing that catches a man’s interest first. You also can’t build a good relationship with no physical attraction whatsoever.

    I know people on CH lump women together a lot, and they are wrong to do that. Not all women love jerks. Just a sizable fraction does.

    You also said that men should find something between putting women on a pedestal and directing venom at them. I agree. But Heartiste, I think, advised “nice guy” betas to try asshole game first, as it’s the best thing to use TO BEGIN WITH, if you want a good encouraging change in your success. So I hope this is just a “phase” that will gradually turn into accepting women as they are and living with it.

  3. Anonymous says:

    As one of those commenters, I'd say you are correct, and I'm impressed with your powers of observation.

    Your reasons number 2 and 3 are especially accurate I would say. You can't imagine what hard mental work it is to keep yourself in the correct frame of mind for dealing with women, when you are trying to defeat lifelong bad habits. Personally, I need to continually remind myself of the more unattractive aspects of women in order to break the pedestaling habit. I don't imagine I will be feeling this way for much longer…I just needed to get the beta out of my system.

    Please remember that many men are overcorrecting because they have been raised by single mothers and brainwashed with a rather extreme version of feminism, that demands they always put women on unrealistic pedestals. They grow up, get their hearts broken a bunch of times, and become really depressed and cynical about women and about all the lies they were told. This leads to the anger phase.

    You are right though, all it takes is a good-hearted woman to come along and love these guys and they will temper their hostilities a bit more.

  4. Emma says:

    You confirmed what I suspected – that the urge to put a woman on a pedestal is rather strong and often requires some harsh measures to eradicate. I wonder how much of it is learned and how much is natural.
    You guys have it rough, disappointment is not a good feeling. If a good woman comes along, just make sure not to go back to clueless beta state and start pedestalizing again.

  5. Anonymous says:

    I honestly think it's almost all learned. It comes from the way you were raised. On the one hand you have all religions basically pedestaling women to an insane degree, with the one exception of Islam. On the other hand, you have the feminist movement, which has so totally dominated the discourse and academia in western nations, that it has become the new normal.

    I look at men in my family in past generations, prior to 1969. All of them were natural born alphas. I am too. Basically what I have had to do is strip away all the false conditioning and programming, to reveal what I really am underneath – what I always have been – which is a “lower alpha”. I never agreed with feminism – I saw how unnatural and wrong it was even as a young child. The problem is that I had not yet developed the faculties for independent analysis, and could not articulate why I disagreed with those principles. In the absence of a coherent defense, I just trusted the adults in my life and went with what I was told, assuming that maybe it would all make sense some day.

    My feminist mom really did a number on me with all those lectures, and boy did I let her have it recently. I told her point blank how badly she had screwed me up with her lies, and how I have needlessly suffered in my relationships because of her horrible advice. She still doesn't get it really…which feeds the image of women being unable to self-reflect or admit wrongdoing.

    Now I am reeling from the biggest loss in my life – a woman I loved and was with for ten years. I look back at all the beta things I did and I just want to die. All I was trying to do was be nice to her, to treat her well, to do the things I was told women needed. It just made her lose respect for me, even though she is a so-called feminist. It broke my heart. I can't stop the feeling of hatred for her for doing that to me, and for not giving me any indication at all of what i was doing wrong. In fact she told me that her biggest complaint was that I wasn't nice enough – but I know in my heart that was total bull. She didn't know what she needed any more than I knew to just be natural and alpha.

    Very sad state of affairs. I look at the younger generations, and it looks like the idea of love is hanging on by a thread.

    For myself, I don't think I'll ever love a woman again. It's just too much work to manage their hamster, and the risk of heartache at the hands of their capricious whims is too great. Instead, I take the Roissy path of banging younger hotter ones….but it is not as fulfilling as a real relationship would be.

    I've taken enough space here but thanks for being one of the good ones.

  6. Anonymous says:

    I could be wrong though, perhaps nature maintains a natural distribution of 10% alpha genes and 90% beta genes, in order to help maintain some sort of order. It's confusing though, because there are alphas among men, and alphas among women, and a lot of times they don't overlap. I believe that in past times, nearly all men were naturally alpha with women, but these same men knew when to be the beta around a powerful male alpha. This mentality is necessary for things like armies and companies to exist. Men know their place in the hierarchy among men, and honor the chain of command for the most part, because they realize that it benefits the whole group. So, while it is natural to submit to the authority of a higher ranking male, it is not natural to submit to women.

  7. Emma says:

    I'm sorry you lost someone you loved and hate them now. I don't mean to be mean, but when you say things like that, I feel happy I'm not a man, as then I would feel something similar in your place. Men have their faults as well (you can get pumped and dumped, for example, if you stupidly confuse an alpha cad for a good beta), but at least there is none of that hypergamy business with them…

    Yeah, you shouldn't submit to a woman, they tend not to like it. Even if they are feminist. I think feminists might believe their ideology, even if it goes against their nature, which is why they end up deceiving you and themselves, and it leads to a bad end. I don't know your ex, but she might have been as deluded as you. In any case, good luck.

  8. Ben says:

    “Se se se se circle jerrrrkinnnn. Yeah yeah”

    Preaching to the choir is not fearless introspection.

  9. zia says:

    The problem is when a man who reads Heartiste automatically assumes negative traits on the woman he’s gaming, because of his perception of her exceptional beauty. Women with low self-esteem rarely respond to game tactics, which may lead him to pull out all the stops and overgame her. Her low self-esteem makes her especially susceptible to overgame, as his actions could be perceived as abusive. She pays the price with her emotional well being thanks to his warped perspective.

    • Emma the Emo says:

      Sounds kinda true. It’s the opposte of what some people think – that only low self-esteem girls fall for game. I think the worse you feel, the more scared you are that someone will hurt you, and the easier people’s words hurt you. So unless you’re masochistic, you wouldn’t like a guy who makes you jealous, instills dread, and devalues you in subtle ways.

  10. Anon says:

    Roissy’s point is that a lot of the POSITIVITY is uncalled for. Men imbue women, especially pretty women, with traits they neither possess nor are willing to earn. Roissy’s point is that society stereotypes women as devoted angels when in fact the practical character of women’s love, their hypergamous nature, makes them anything but. Roissy’s point is that we tell pretty lies to ourselves to be politically correct about women’s instinctual drives and that hurts both men and women as individuals and society as a whole.

    • Emma the Emo says:

      Hmm.. I never really noticed this. Pretending women are angels I mean (although it seems they rarely get executed for crimes.. and can get away with murder by using battered wife syndrome). As for men assuming women will love them like they will love the women, it might just be projection. When I was young, I thought love was the same for both sexes, now I’m not so sure anymore.

  11. Maya says:

    I think another thing to keep in mind is that the boys who go on and on about “alpha” and “what women REALLY desire,” are typically just frustrated sub-betas. Angry ones.

    Smoldering & bitter, even.

    Like the guys who join the Tea Party not because they agree with William F. Buckley (or have a thing for Joseph de Maistre…) but who are just mad that they’re not getting what they want out of life.

    Reading those guys is like seeing some weird shadow-projection of inadequacy, squared with wish fulfillment fantasies of what women are really like, and peppered with a lack of anything even resembling an educated mind.

    • Emma the Emo says:

      Lol, can’t say they look very admirable, but many seem to say that they acted like the women told them to act and it failed. It seems there are many sub-betas there, but there also seems to be a group which used to be beta and got better at attracting women. I think the former are what you’re describing. The latter… might be right. At least about a certain fraction of women (don’t know how big, but it seems to be big enough to be noticeable). On Roissy’s site and other places (like Taken In Hand), many women admit they like the man to take charge. There is a lot of emphasis on independence though, nowadays. And having a career. And people being taught the sexes are pretty much the same… No wonder people of both sexes are confused.

  12. Necorochi says:

    YES, I found the girl side of game. CHA CHING!!!

    YES

    YES

    YES

    YES

    YES

    YES

    YES

    YES
    (^^ Arrogant/annoying/masculenity) LOL

    I’m going to troll your blog now.

    I knew a girl version of game blog existed, I finally found one.

    Also I read another one of your posts and you said Never fuck an Alpha male because it will be unforgetable, and you think that since your a 6 most alpha’s want to pump and dump; not entirely true if your good in bed despite you being a 6 for example if you can ride the fuck out of some cock you can control some beta’s and keep alpha’s around longer/keep them around in general. All men regardless of alpha or beta would appreciate women that know how to ride and are good in bed in general. The high valued women already know this and is why they control men so easily they are good in bed hint hint.
    Feminist are complaining about inequality so much and expect US man to only do the slamming, well if more women were good at riding cock instead of man slamming them all the time EVERYONE would be happy. I slamm the fuck out of you good, you slamm the fuck out of me good case closed.

    By the way, It is very interesting to see a girl’s perspective on game. Nice post. ^__^

    • emmatheemo says:

      Well, I’m not exactly writing about game for girls, but I make comments about game blogs and sometimes tell girls what worked for me. There is this blog called “Girl Game”, btw, which is game for girls, but it’s kinda dead (the writers achieved the relationships they wanted and stopped writing). I’m more a Truth&Justice kinda blogger 😉

      Your advice isn’t without value – to deal with hypergamy, you either tone it down, or become good enough for an alpha that you want. Making yourself indispensable and irreplaceable is, I think, one of the best ways too keep an alpha, or any man.

  13. BK says:

    necrorochi LOL, you fucking troll. man i miss sharks blog. his was the best. although roissy’s blog has a wealth of invaluable information, the dude writes with too much anger for my taste. he never learned to let.fucking.go 🙂

  14. youngMan26 says:

    “By age 26-29 most women have begun the decline to sexual obsolescence. ”
    Mr. Roissy.

    Lol.

  15. The Swede says:

    I am not a woman reading Chateu Heartiste – but I am a man who just recently discovered these sites that talk about “Game”. This is what lead me here actually, and it was very interesting those three ideas you listed.

    I have as long as I can remember been very interested in women. All women. Mostly due to the fact that we (men&women) evolved differently between ages 8-13 when we left each other to our own devices and were all like: ‘You got cooties, uuuhh” to each other. Women are like a alien species to me, a species that I am most attracted to and interested in.

    This however has led me on a path of self destruction, deception and lies. When trying to analyze what the hell is wrong with me, I stumbled upon “Game Theory”.
    There I discovered that I am in fact something they call “A Natural” and an “Alpha”.
    When doing a lot of self reflection, I realized that this is due to my unhappy childhood with a single mother who was psychologically abusive to me – a lot of times because of her own inadequacy to meet a good man.

    My confidence level is very very high. But what is very very low is my self esteem. I am always looking for “quick fixes” and the act of getting women to like me, fuck me or even fall in love with me fulfilled the need to feel like I am important and means something good to someone. No “pump&dump” or shady nature against these women – but I have been married the whole time. Deceptive indeed. I am also a high functioning pot head with a very prestigous job. The aloofness that comes from being addicted to this kind of mind shutting drug makes me even more attractive to women I have noticed. Do I sound like a fuck-up yet?

    So what I want to say is that I as an Alpha, is in truth someone pathetic and evil, and it does not make me feel good at all. On the other side of the spectrum (betas, omegas) feel hostility towards women because they can not have 20 different sex partners in a year. Who needs that?
    We have gotten lost again, almost like when we all had cooties. Men can’t be men, and women can’t be women. Our gender roles all mixed up, and leading to a lot of unnecessary conflict between the sexes.
    Don’t strive to be an Alpha. Be yourself until you find someone who likes that self. Saves a lot of heartache and you won’t get as lost as I am. I have bedded something like 80 girls during my married life. And I feel like shit.

    • emmatheemo says:

      I’m not sure I would be so quick to recommend “being yourself” to a beta or omega. I’m afraid you and them are like trying to compare problems of those who are starving due to weather disaster, and those who live in USA and are suffering from anorexia. Both problems are serious. But these people aren’t likely to understand each other’s problems. An omega starved for sex or any kind of positive female attention would probably not mind trading with you. Anything but the continuation of the incel hell (even another kind of hell). And likewise, you don’t see why they try to be more alpha.
      Personally, I think banging 20 women per year and chasing notches isn’t always optimal either (Roosh spoke once of the hedonistic threadmill and how it gives diminishing returns for your effort). But for an omega, even banging once in a while is a good start. Once the bare necessities like that are secured, he can think about more meaningful things, like how to have a fulfilling life, rather than just an unpainful one.

      • The Swede says:

        Thanks Emma, I think I need to read and learn more about this. The hedonistic treadmill was very interesting indeed, and quite true about the diminishing returns.
        Perhaps I am basically a sex addict who had to reach alpha status to get my fix. And is now getting all sensitive human being and s*it. Feelings are for suckers and old people. Guess I’m getting old.
        Thanks again for your interesting blog and the pointers.

  16. ChickenDippaz says:

    25+ women don’t EVER want to be seen without makeup outside.Life for a 25+ year old woman is an *ARMS RACE* between beauty/makeup/anti-aging products and the effects of sun and aging.

    • Emma the Emo says:

      Hmm.. I’m kind of curious what will happen to me at that age. But one fun thing I’ve found out is that overdoing all that beauty/makeup/anti-aging product stuff will age you. Overcleaning and abusing strong cream will cause breakouts, face exercise will cause wrinkles, waxing the upper lip will create wrinkles… Rubbing your eyes to remove makeup will fuck them up. It seems protecting the face from the elements and yourself is what works best. But then, I’m not 25 yet.

  17. ChickenDippaz says:

    Women are magically thin, slender, tight-skinned at 23, then magically at 25+ they are saggy and loose skinned.

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  19. K says:

    While I suppose it’s good you are trying to keep a levelheaded approach when it comes to the chauvinistic, insecure scumbags who contribute to the Chateau Heartiste blog, I feel as though you are overlooking/downplaying just how ugly the message behind this disgusting blog is. After having the misfortune of accidentally stumbling upon that vile garbage hole of a blog and reading quite a few of the posts (mostly out of sheer disbelief/disgust/horror – somewhat like a train wreck you can’t look away from) I can confidently say that the contributors are nothing short of absolute woman-haters. They aren’t just playfully bashing or “making fun” of women, they are promoting a line of thinking that dictates that women are paractically subhuman and inferior to men. I would even go so far as to say a lot of what is written on that horrendous blog is nothing short of hate speech. And it’s not ok. And they certainly don’t have a “good reason” to be doing it. Because you know what? Sure, there are a lot of insecure, f’ed up crazy women out there. But there are just as many insecure, f’ed up crazy men too – the contributors to this blog being great examples of that. So, while I agree that no woman should take any of the hateful nonsense that this blog spews personally, it also shouldn’t be taken lightly. The attitudes perpetuated on this despicable blog are the same ones behind abuse.

    • Emma the Emo says:

      I think what you’re seeing is anger that will remain there, whether you silence them or not. And when I hear someone say the phrase “hate speech”, I kinda have a suspicious they do want that sort of thing to be illegal. Do you?
      But silenced, or illegalized anger tends to come out in different ways, often worse ways. So I’m glad these angry men have a place where they can meet understanding, even if it looks ugly to some people.
      What I can agree on, is that it’s unhealthy to stay in that anger long term. Ideally, these men would vent their frustration, and then after a while accept things as they are and work towards having a better life and being more skillful at life (These “stages of grief” are often talked about in these sites). And many men do, even those who have said hair-raising stuff in the past.

      I think they have a good reason for the negativity the same way I think anyone else has a good reason for negativity, if they experienced consistent misfortune, or deception, or rejection. It doesn’t mean women as a group deserve that negativity, but there is nothing wrong with expressing it.

      Also, remember to look at what men do, rather than what they say, there is often a telling difference ( https://emmatheemo.wordpress.com/2013/07/29/dont-listen-to-what-men-say-look-at-what-they-do/ )

  20. April says:

    I agree…little boys playing the part of a man. Even if they had a positive relationship with a woman, the woman would have to drop his immature ass.

  21. April says:

    Just a way for them to make money…the only thing they care about!

  22. Yeah OK. Men are insecure, huh? Betas are just screwed up because you women lied to them about being “nice” guys who are supportive and open about their feelings. Those stupid fuckers actually believed you, because they don’t know what cruel manipulative bitches you are. And no, I don’t hate women, but you’re fundamentally dishonest. You never straight out tell us what you want and then get mad when we don’t know.
    You may not like game, but all you women do is play games. Its one game after another with you. Melodrama and manipulation and fake crying. You’re lucky men are still willing to put up with you at all. You know the Japanese are doing amazing things with robots now. A really good sex doll could be coming on the market soon. If you want a man you better get one now, cause a woman with a mute button and an off switch will probably make all of you obsolete.

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